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Every Effort

95 thoughts on “Every Effort

  1. Now, why would she be taking pictures of Black Canary’s Ass…that’s something I would do, but Pumpkin…?!? Unless it is in reference to her ambiguity as of right now…nothing wrong with that.

  2. the funny thing about this comics subject is pumplins in the right about this if you are in a public venue like a con onse right to privacy in sum way shape or form in forfit the only time youd need to get permition is if you had intention to sell or puplish the work thak you years of Photography school

    1. For example, the back of my badge for NekoCon 2014 reads as follows: Acceptance of this badge constitutes an agreement by the badgeholder to allow NekoCon, Neko, Inc. & ESSI to use their image or likeness in any current or future advertising or promotion.

      Ergo, pictures and video footage will be taken. They will probably end up on the internet. Get over it. If you don’t want any pics at all taken of you, a convention is the last place you should go.

    2. First time I heard the term “up-skirt” was in a news report about a court decision that women who wore skirts/dresses outside their homes had no right to expect that people with cameras would NOT be trying to “up-skirt” them. I was pretty stunned by that one — VERY stunned — but I’m no lawyer/judge. I heard that a lot of state legislatures were re-writing their legal codes to explicitly fix that one.

      1. I remember hearing that was a sufficient problem in Japan that digital cameras that didn’t make an obvious noise when taking a picture weren’t legal to sell.

        This is just the inherent issue with any system of rules/laws. Can’t be perfect and will always err one way or another. The question is which way it’s preferable to err.

    3. Well, she’s also kind of wrong. There’s this one youtube compilation of booth babes at a gaming convention that seems really respectful. It ends with some guy walking up behind a woman in body paint, point a camera directly at her ass crack, and snapping a closeup while she is completely oblivious to his presence. That guy should get kicked out. And no, I am not Steve.

    1. He’s composing a song as we speak. “O Creeper girl / I get too close and you explode / Should have known from the hissing sound / Why didn’t I pack more arrows? / O Creeper girl”

      And the lovestruck Ham-Ham sung the bizarre, impromptu tune of his devotion every night, until the Creeper rushed at him and took out a 3 x 3 section of the map.

        1. I was thinking “Brown Eyed Girl” at the time, but then it just got weird, and so the melody is whatever you can wedge in there. I’m still not sure what happened.

        1. I think that trouble recognizing Index Man means you’re up to be an average citizen in Index Man’s universe (like his co-worker).

    1. As someone who took our stalker lady’s side in the prior strip, here I agree with Pumpkin. There’s some reasonable steps you can take (for instance, if the subject is willing to pose, have ’em stand against a wall/pillar. It’ll make the shot better. And honestly, the big debate isn’t about folks stuck in the background; that’s gonna happen whether your cosplaying or not (though if you spot a cool costume in the background of the image you just took, run ’em down and ask if they’d pose for you, too!).

      1. Yep. Same here. It’s a matter of reasonable expectations. It’s not unreasonable to expect someone to ask you before specifically taking a photo of your costume. It’s unreasonable to have to ask every person who just happened to end up in the background.

        1. Plus when you buy the tickets, most conventions say that you’re consenting to having your picture taken anyway.

        2. Mr. Blue wonders if anyone could make any money renting space from a convention for a picture free zone, and charge admission to the space, allowable for 30 minutes picture free con experiences.

        3. Wierd. I’m the “Anonymous” from the prior post. Not sure why it didn’t show up.

          Yes, I know the cons have that policy, but that’s also because they want to post large group shots and such for their website, generally–not so they can sneak up and take a photo of Black Canary’s ass without her knowledge.

          It’s not about law or anything like that–it’s about courtesy and reasonable behavior. Person in center of shot, ask for permission. Person in the background, not a big deal. If you happen to catch someone in the background at an awkward moment (like a wardrobe malfunction), good taste and courtesy say you should either approach, show the photo and ask, or crop the shot before posting it to the web. This is Decent Human Being 101 stuff….

      2. I’m not going to run after everyone who’s in the picture. They don’t want their picture taken then they shouldn’t come to the con.

    2. If you want to call Katrina not wrong in this comic, I think you still have to call her excessive. What’s it take, 30 minutes to take each picture just to run everyone down? I hate having my picture taken, but that’s why I watch for people taking pictures and avoid getting in their fore or backgrounds.

      1. Right. I mean, I’m not going to chase down everyone in the background. No matter what you’re not going to get everyone. That’s why I’ve just stopped trying. It takes too long and distracts from the convention.

  3. Most of the times when you buy a ticket to a con they say that you are consenting to being photographed by purchasing a ticket and entering

  4. Seriously, is there anything that’s going to satisfy this woman? We haven’t even seen her smile since she popped up, she’s been too busy worrying about the rights of random person #17’s toaster cosplay showing up on Facebook.

    1. Oddly enough the impression I’m getting at the moment is “wow she sure is mellow about sitting in Punkin’s room and having an irritating conversation about ethics. Oooh no, the slippery slope, any action is always impossible!” You know I think she’s enjoying herself. It might be the kind of enjoyment where she runs screaming out of the house in another 15 minutes, but I don’t think she’d be so calm if she hated it.

      Also I think we all know where this is going so.

      1. I’ve been withholding spoiling the story with elaborating on character motivations..but its not about “enjoying herself.” Pumpkin is to Kat what Ellie is to Danny. Tactics and expected results are the difference.

        Neither Danny nor Kat, who I consider quasi-love interests, concern themselves with who either of their counterparts ‘are’ but are more interested in who or what they desire them to be. Kat’s tactic is to be influential.

        1. Is Kat conscoiusly trying to groom Pumpkin, or is she kidding herself? I didn’t think she’d be able to be creepier than Danny…

        2. I thought that the obvious was purchasing Subway sandwiches before complaining about common person who irritates both people, and then forcing said purchaser of the Subway fare upon the person receiving the free food.

  5. Though it’s pretty easy to crop pictures these days. It’s harder if you want to post photos directly from your phone, but otherwise, use paint (the program, not the art supply) to remove that cankle!

    Seriously, though, if you take a couple hundred pictures at cons (like the lady at epbot.com), it’s not really feasible to ask everyone who photobombs your approved shots for permission, nor should someone have to spend their convention time hunting down a myriad of photobombers instead of attending the events at the con (which is theoretically why you’re there, right?). It’s completely conceivable to spend hours trying to find people you KNOW at a con, much less try to hunt down random strangers, and it’s fairly easy to lose someone in a crowd. And that’s if you notice the offending appendage at the time you take the picture. She’s being pretty unreasonable here. Maybe they should just confiscate all the cameras and cell phones at the entrance instead. That might make her happy.

        1. Just any identifying features would be sufficient. Tattoos and faces, beyond that it would be difficult to prove that “this is my likeness”.

        2. At least that is a bit more random then just swirling your face to keep from incriminating yourself… wait, that was an epic fail by that guy, right? So that technique is out. Besides, just relying on computer processing and automated process can be reversed. Working on either the blurring or black bar placement is a more artistic endeavor in itself as well.

        3. If I have GIMP up and open, I can blur everything but the foreground subject in less than a minute. More if I want it to look decent, but drawing a quick selection around the subject, reversing selection, and blurring, or pixelating, or whatever, is fairly quick.
          It would ruin the image, in this case, however.

          But. That’s less than a minute, per picture. Not worth it, really.

  6. My opinion of Kat as being more than slightly unbalanced has not changed.

    And my goal is to now work “May I have consent for that cankle” into a conversation.

  7. There is implied consent in all these instances. You go to a public event, where photography will be happening, that is one level. You dress in an eye catching costume, that is another level. You pose in said costume for anyone, even more implied consent.

    1. I don’t think you can “imply” consent. Lots and lots of lawsuits over that sort of thing (some more extreme and really more inappropriate to this conversation than others). You either have it or you don’t.

      1. You can imply consent. May or may not hold up, but you can try it if you want.

        I think a lot of it depends on how far of a stretch what is being assumed for consent. Assuming consent for having sex with a complete stranger based upon wardrobe, damn near certain to fail. Assuming consent for taking a picture in a place generally considered public with no photo prohibitions posted anywhere, I haven’t heard of that being ruled against (not that I’ve spent a lot of time looking).

  8. As someone who has done a lot of cosplay, I appreciate it when others have the courtesy to ask first and click second. Given the effort that goes into putting an outfit together, I prefer not to be immortalized with a shopping bag, cell phone, or Polish sausage in hand (well, unless the whole point of the shoot is to be ironic or some such). IME, most cosplayers simply prefer to be able to get in character first rather than being snapped while they are peeling off their uncomfortable boots, grimacing from their corset, or slouching because their armor is killing their back.

    That said, I do understand that it’s not always possible to get the undivided attention of a subject, or even a clear shot. If you see a cool cosplay group approaching down the opposite side of a crowded sky bridge at DragonCon, you do NOT try to setup an impromptu photoshoot unless you want to piss-off a few hundred people and risk getting trampled. Sometimes you just have to snap what shots you can and hope for the best. As long as the photographer isn’t purposefully being creepy or invading reasonable expectations of “public” privacy (i.e. eating, using the restroom, speaking on the phone, etc.), then I’ve rarely seen anyone take issue.

    In essence, the important lesson that I think Kat will/should take away from Pumpkin is that theory and practice are two different things: in theory there’s no good reason not to make “every effort”, in practice there is.

    1. I agree with what you said, however your last statement reminds me of a phrase I enjoy saying to people primarily to be irritating, especially if I think they’re being overconfident.

      In theory, there’s no difference between theory and practice.

      I never finish the statement with the second half, either.

        1. I’ll admit I’m careful to only do it indoors. I’ll also admit that I’ve assumed that saying the wrong thing (which I find funny) to the wrong person is likely to be the way I’m going to go since at least middle school.

        2. Surely they’re just trying to help a tired guy cross the street… “Nope, nothing coming but a dog!” *shoves and whispers* “A Greyhound dog…”

        3. Well sure, how can someone relax when their muscles are moving so much. A lot of people don’t consider rewarding all the hard work their heart and diaphram has done all their lives by letting them take a complete breather for a few hours. They’re just being considerate.

      1. I’m fond of the other version, too: The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than in practice.

    2. I actually cosplayed for the first time at DragonCon 2014. A group of us did Wheel of Time characters and I went as Rand al’Thor. A few people asked to take my picture, the ones that got it anyway, but the cosplayers want to have a convention too. I figured I’d be photographed a few times without my knowledge. It was part of the game. I tried to spot the people taking my picture. As a really tall guy, I know you don’t dress in a bright red coat with gold trim and a sword and expect to NOT be photographed a few times. The odds of being able to get a good shot of a good costume are low enough in a crazy setting and I think most people know that. The people that pitch a fit are either the ones who have people taking creepy photos of their boobs etc, or are looking to prove a point. Otherwise, you should know what you’re in for when you dress up.

      1. Cool, hope you enjoyed DragonCon and cosplaying in general! Also, I suspect you’re right about someone who has had many negative experiences being more guarded. With respect to the comic though, I’m not entirely certain if that’s the reason for Kat’s outlook or not. I still get the feeling that she’s coming at this from more of an ideological rather than practical angle.

  9. The other catch with this, if a photo is being taken, and someone jumps into on purpose, i.e. target pulls friends B and E into the shot, if they pose with, that counts as consent. If they did not wish to be in that photo, they could have hid their face or tried to leave. If they dont try to leave, they are showing that they want to be in that photo. I dont mean stand there when I say strike a pose, I mean they get in and actually take a pose appropriate to the character.

      1. I think you’re onto something. If they do a teenage X-Men reboot, photobombing should absolutely be teen Nightcrawler’s obnoxios hobby.

        1. Fanboy Rant Incoming!

          Oh man- I loved X-Men Evolution. It was such a great show. I really liked how they emphasized that they were people first, mutants and heroes second. Some aspects got a little too cheesy (Senator Kelly, a man who hated mutants and tried his damned hardest to fight them, became a high school principle who simply disliked mutants, yet somehow was okay with letting one group of mutants bully another group) and/or teenage-ified (the classic “teens take out the cool car for a spin,” except it was a military grade jet).

          Everything about the series’s characters worked well too. Teenage awkwardness relates to their own budding powers, and the disassociation they feel with other, “normal” kids. Teen angst relates to the stripping of their rights. It was an awesome show. It’s a shame it was cancelled…

  10. So just wondering but what type of shoes is Pumpkin wearing. They look like rain boots to me. Also, ( inner mom coming out) get those dirty shoes off your bed xp!

  11. To Ashlii in the upper right:

    When the 90’s called, I hoped you warned them about all the stuff that happens. Take some responsibility, kid.

    I mean, if they didn’t get the warning to clear up the confusion over the Norweigan missile firing in 1995, all the people who are dead now because of World War 3 are on your head.

    1. I liked XKCD #875 too (and anyone not immediately knowing and going to check, make sure to check the mouseover text too).

  12. Pumpkin is rapidly cementing her rank as my favorite character. How does she find the time?

    Art Note: I see you already know the pro-tip about not focusing your perspective directly on an enderman. Hopefully nobody got hurt (and your home didn’t get damaged) while you were still learning.

      1. Usually? Behind you. Sometimes just to your left or right. Before they got horribly overpowered I used to really enjoy fighting them.

  13. Hey! It’s been a while since I’ve been back- Looks like a lot has changed!

    I like the way Pumpkin appears in the final panel- She’s supposed to sound like she’s mocking someone in a dumb voice, yet looks like a cute odd-ball.

    I’m a little curious about the way both Pumpkin and the prosthetic effects girl seem to keep getting into arguments. Pumpkin argues from the side of most typical convention-goers, but the effects girl seems to keep arguing the more personal rights/freedom side of things. I see this happen in politics all too often. But it’s the issue of common sense versus respect that seems to be the issue here, and it’s simply not practical to ask for permission from EVERYONE, even if it MIGHT infringe on their rights. But then again, if you’re going to the convention in full costume, then you’re INTENTIONALLY going there to be seen in costume- so why whine about people taking pictures of you? You dressed to be seen, right? So what difference is there to be simply seen, and to be seen and photographed?

    Reminds me of a friend of a friend in college- she dressed in as skimpy clothes as she could get away with, but then whined to her friends about how much guys were staring at her.

    1. I remember reading somewhere, maybe as a suggestion to avoid problems while running cons, something about having color coded badges, with one edge color for permission to photograph given, and another for permission to photograph reserved.

      So, in any picture where you can see the badges, you can see if you need to blur/delete or hunt them down for permission to keep/publish the pic.

  14. Well said Pumpkin. I’ve always marveled at the coplayers who take the stance of “everyone who takes pictures needs to have everyone/everything’s permission first”.

  15. While the makeup chick is being unreasonable, I would have to think that common human decorum would dictate that you at least ask the person being photographed for consent. I think all involved can agree on that as a minimum.

    1. Of course- I don’t think anyone would say anything less than that. However, she thinks that it’s possible to get EVERYONE’S permission. Now, I don’t know about you, but if I were to see someone who looked really cool at a con, or really well played then I’d ask to take their picture- but I’m not gonna ask another 40 people in the shot for their picture too.

      If the subject gives their consent, I think that should be considered fine. But like what Pumpkin says- if someone’s cankle is in the shot as well, if you can’t even tell who it is, or if it’s VERY clear that they are NOT the subject of the photograph, I don’t think that it’s necessary to hunt them down to ask their permission. If that were the case, then no one would even bother to to take photographs at all.

      That being said, I still respect others, and I think it’s impossible to take their opinions into consideration. Still- asking for over 20 people’s permission to photo a single person is little much. But either way you slice it- She is NOT someone I want to go to a con with!

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