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Juliet of the Spirits

Heavily considering making that secondary comic canon.. Annalise is doing better. We had to get her tested for COVID. Ended up not having it, but she was having a lot of trouble breathing. Chest xray didn't show pneumonia either. Just super super congested. This will be the only main site comic for the week. This one took me 5 straight days, so I gotta move back to getting Patreon stuff done. You guys are pretty good at figuring out the comic so far. Claire's certainly been enjoying the discussions in comments. In this one, Pumpkin is channeling both Ellie and Tarragon, flip-floppinh between the both of them. Playing with her hands is something I usually have Ellie do as often as possible, as well as trying to look innocent. Second to last panel is an obvious Tarra-ism. She's really stuck in the middle trying to figure out who she is. 

48 thoughts on “Juliet of the Spirits

    1. Yup. I am not even skeptical that they don’t both really exist, but I am still not going to go to Amazon and do a search.

  1. I’m liking the debate these past few pages. I love Pumpkin exploring her interests now, but her attitude really seemed appalling towards Quinn. Not only is she underage, but she’s being far too pushy even ignoring that. Quinn’s response to it all is completely fair and her opinion should be respected.

    1. I think Pumpkin is in the middle of learning and accepting a lot about herself, and it’s difficult for her learn what it’s like to be on the side of people she had previously critisized and now… oh F that noise I’m still shippin’ it!!! #Quinkin 4EVA!!!1!

  2. Shame is that there are a number of people out there that think the way Pumpkin thinks about that type of thing and unfortunately don’t realize the error of that way of thinking as she did.

    1. Holy shit, yes. Gender is not “arbitrary.”

      You can identify as an attack helicopter all you like but that don’t mean you can fly.

  3. S.S. Quinn-Pumpkin … what a fine ship it was!
    Young, determined, a vessel worthy of her name. First, of her kind, it radiated class and elegance in her line, unlike the other ships in her seas.
    Atlas, it was for not.
    For over the horizon came a truly awful shot, one that not ship could withstand!

    As the waves settled and fog wanned, the great ship all but disappeared, never to be seen again …

    It’s a sorrowful day.

    Considering it got sunk before they were freaking done laying the freaking keel …

    Lol ok, some of us, including me, had stated Quinn never actually said no. Yeah, well, that ‘no’ was so hard, and those breaks were slammed on so fast, I am surprised Pumpkin didn’t go through the windshield. lol Sorry, Kid, you have done been ‘friend-zoned.’

    Now, it looks like one of her sisters has found out, and it ain’t Ellie, either. I hope she is sympathetic to Pumpkin’s plight and …
    Ah! Who am I kidding? This is the same woman who programed a bot to take a bullet for her and then have his kids crying over his body. lol

    1. To be faaaaaair…

      Quinn never *explicitly* said she was not interested in girls, just that she was not interested in dating Pumpkin. (The not into girls thing was implicit, which should be enough in a non-shipping world. Which this isn’t.)

      Combined with their banter about the possibilities of Future Pumpkin and Future Quinn, I think the correct status of the U.S.S. PumpQuinn should read as “Lost at Sea – Presumed Sunk”. I think if the authorial intent was there to actually get these two together, it would be possible, but at this point it would take multiple story lines all resulting in strong growth/change in both characters’ outlooks. And the author has not telegraphed any intentions in that direction. So I guess we will have to settle for gal-pals for the foreseeable future, which isn’t a terrible thing by any metric.

      1. To be faaaaaaair…

        Nobody should ever have to be explicitly, utterly, crystal clear straightforward about their intentions and desires, especially when they have already, in so many ways, expressed them anywhere from subtly to outright. Quinn doesn’t owe her that, or anything other than her friendship, and that is heavily contingent on Pumpkin not being a manipulative brat. “She didn’t technically say no” is a shoddy defense and won’t win you any cases in a court of law or especially the court of public opinion.

        Given Quinn’s eyerolling in panel 16, I’m pretty sure the good ship PumpQuinn (oh, now that just sounds dirty, even if it does roll pleasantly off the tongue) has had it’s keel broken and sunk straight to Davy Jones’s locker. Or possibly Peter Tork’s. One of the Monkees. Anyway. Pumpkin still has a lot of maturity to develop because even after being outright told no and being given a second chance at friendship, she’s still scheming and planning manipulative behavior.

  4. This page was amazing, just, perfect. Pumpkin is entitled and bratty and Quinn won’t stand for it. No one is entitled to anyone’s love! No matter what ‘compromises’ they make! It’s not your right to have the other person if they don’t want you! I am so glad Quinn put her foot down. And Pumpkin accepted it. But wanting to be friends while still hoping for romance is a bit…manipulative. Hopefully she was just joking. At least Quinn is more than willing to shut down any moves Pumpkin makes.

    Now just hope Tarragon is…not about to try and protect her sis’ honor? I dunno, she doesn’t seem the type XD

  5. That ended better than I was expecting, especially with shitty Pumpkin was getting trying to manipulate, pressure, and guilt Quinn into a pity relationship. Thankfully Quinn shut it down hard enough for Pumpkin to catch the hint and back off for the time being, but odds are she’s going to keep toeing the line expecting to ‘win’ Quinn over and could very well get burned hard for it for failing to respect Quinn’s boundaries. Pumpkin’s whole attitude just reeks of Nice Guy™, so trying to stay friends could end badly for both of them. Time will tell.

  6. The thing that really hits me with this is that pumpkin claimed that she wouldn’t act like the sort of shitty dudes that Quinn normally falls for, only to then try to steam roll around Quinn’s feelings and demand that she date her because she’s making “compromises”, followed by accusing her of being a bigot for saying no. The exact sort of entitled bs that someone like Alex was pulling way back in the early parts of the comics. Honestly, if I was Quinn I’d say “we’re friends” to not ruin the bday party but then just sort of ghost her or shut her down later, because based on Punpkins response it sounds like she’s not going to just accept the relationship as only friends. It would be a pretty hard lesson, but it’s clearly one that she needs to learn.

    1. Meh, Pumpkin is being a shit, but she’s young and stupid with a lot to learn, as long as she does move on and not keep pressuring then I think the friendship will be OK (obvioulsy if she continues then thats different). Besides not sure ghosting is much of an option when she’s living with her sister.

  7. This is why I like Quinn. She didn’t allow herself to be bullied into a relationship she didn’t want, which ultimately saves both of them a lot of heartache. Pumpkin, if you have to convince someone to be with you, then you shouldn’t be with them! I am a bit concerned though that Quinn is going to remain friends. In my experience, it’s hard to be friends with someone who has a crush on you but you won’t be with. Always second guessing if an action is leading them on. The occasional subtle “testing the waters” if you’ve changed your mind. The heartbroken puppy dog eyes if you accidentally mention a date \ your SO. Not saying it can’t be done…but it’s never worked out well for me.

    1. I stayed friends with multiple people who rejected me. I mean, the crush was there before I told them and didn’t interfere with our friendship then. Throwing the friendship out over it seems sad.

      1. Easier on your part as you were the confessor not the confessed to. You could be one of the rare gems that make it work; as I said it’s not like it can’t be done. I’ve just never had it be successful. It is a sad way for a friendship to end, but the friendship ended anyway, just in a spectacular fireball. Pumpkin said aloud what they kept quiet – they hoped that as they stuck around as friends that my mind would change. That one day I would wake up, realize they were the one for me and reciprocate their feelings. Then they’d get resentful and angry when that it didn’t happen. Rarely I’d just get ghosted when they had enough, but most of the time they would explode after they tested the waters and I rejected them again. Like a bottle with too much pressure. It’s painful, for both sides.
        Now if you’re respectful and accept no means no, maybe the friendship could work out. Pumpkin might have a problem doing just that.

  8. Boy, Pumpkin started to go full on a***ole in panel five there, and brought up one of those few things in modern debate circles that really rankles me, that being trying guilt people into relationships they wouldn’t otherwise engage in via shaming over bigotry or prejudice. You can no more change someone’s sexuality through accusations of prejudice than you can through conversion therapy. Sexuality, sex and gender are three different things, and while there is some small amount of overlap, there isn’t enough for manipulative a***oles to use it to prybar their way into someone else’s pants. If I like the wang, I like the wang. If I like the vag, I like the vag. If I like them both, then I have twice the chance of getting a date on Friday night, and no amount of trying to shame someone is going to change that – it will, however, out the shamer as the manipulative sh**bag that they are.

    Thankfully, people of this mentality(including more than a few academics) are a minority, and are often (though not always) rebuffed by others in the community of sounder and saner minds. It’s still distressing, however, to see society as a hole take a step forward, and then some people, who I’m sure have good intentions, determined to do an about face and take two steps backwards.

    I’m happy Quinn put her finally put her foot down, but in a way that was gentle enough not to destroy Pumpkin. I still give Pumpkin a pass because she’s young and inexperienced, and as I said before, “Ahh, teenagers.”

    1. I think the thing that frustrates me so much with Pumpkin here is that as someone who is ace/demi myself I can empathize with her getting a huge crush on a friend (cause dear lord did that happen a lot to me) but even at Punpkins age I knew I couldn’t force my feelings onto other people. Obviously this is just a difference in mentality but I can’t help but be especially irritated with her behavior. It doesn’t help that my SO was pressured into a relationship he didn’t want when he was a teen by similar logic of “well. I like you, so you should just date me!” Bonus points for me having parents who were of a mindset that is someone asked me out I should “give them a shot” regardless if my personal feelings on the matter.
      It’s definitely why I think Quinn should gtfo of the relationship if nothing else. To me it doesn’t seem like Pumpkin is taking Quinn’s rejection very seriously, and is liable to try again. (Sorry if this was a bit rambly, I just have a lot of feelings in regards to this particular situation.)

  9. Pumpkin was edging dangerously close to a lesbian version of incel thinking here. The idea that a person deserves ‘love’ more than another person deserves their freedom to choose is EVIL, and Quinn was right to take a zero-tolerance attitude towards it. Fortunately, Pumpkin has backed down, although who knows how much from actual regret and how much from not wanting to burn her bridges. Strangely, I still ship them, although as a “continue to improve” ship then as an “as-is” ship.

    (Personally, I despise the word “deserve”, and try never to use it. Above, I’m trying to describe an evil concept, so I allow its use.)

      1. This isn’t the Disqus module – with that I can see notifications across any site that uses Disqus, not just the ones I have commented on. I follow a few webcomics that use a version of commenting like this one, where you have to input username and email each time.

  10. I would like to point something out here. And before anyone jumps on me, I feel the following is more a matter of Pumpkin still being young and impressionable rather than actively a monster. Pumpkin just used a lot of the same arguments with Quinn that Katrina once used with Rosemary. I feel like that first crush affected Pumpkin more than she realized, and now she is unintentionally acting out the circumstances in her attempts at a future relationship. I can say from personal experience that this type of mimicry of a toxic relationship is at least wrong and often dangerous for the person’s future. Interestingly I think that the way Quinn has shut the door on the relationship is actually healthy for this type of thing, since acquiescing to this type of pressure could have made Pumpkin think that this type of manipulation is acceptable. It’s kind of how lots of incels manage to guilt some girl into dating them and then use the same incel @$$ tactics for the rest of their lives and just end up treating most to all women like shit.
    TL;DR, Quinn might have just saved Pumpkin from becoming whatever the female version of an incel is.

    1. Er, not to nitpick, but isn’t ‘incel’ short for ‘involuntary celibate’, indicating someone who doesn’t have romantic interactions for reasons beyond their control? Or has it just mutated into a generic slur for anyone exhibiting negative dating-related behaviors?

      If he’s dating a bunch of people, through manipulative means or otherwise, I’d think that ceases to qualify him as an incel. Again, sorry for the nitpick, but language is one of those things that really irks me, especially when people get so absurdly cavalier with the use of words that the words no longer resemble their original definition.

      Someone above even referred to ‘lesbian incels’ in relationships and I’m like “Buuuut, if they’re dating, they aren’t really celibate anymore, are they?”

      1. No, you’re right. Incels aren’t dating (not sure if it means never or just at that time), so they wouldn’t be manipulating anyone into dating them.

        1. If you’re in a relationship where you’re not having sex, that sounds voluntary. Either you’re the person who made the decision to not have sex or you made the decision to date that person. So still celibate, but not involuntarily so.

        2. No, to me, in terms ripped out of a global pandemic, dating is getting to know if you want to swap spit with someone.
          Going steady is swapping spit with someone while figuring out if they’re good enough for a run, theatrically speaking.
          Getting engaged is swapping spit the fiancé with some near not safe for work escapades (touch football, soccer,, softball,, etc.) in public with friends at various outings where one is reminded to not step in the streaming divots. This is a level in which some surreal interactions may occur, however your milage may vary.
          The guaranteed sexual relations are after marriage. But that veneer seems to have been shattered by Hollywood, dime store novellas and kids trying to get away from an eldritch monster focused on Derry, Maine.

        3. It’s good that you can clarify your expectations of “guarantees” with anyone with whom you potentially wish to ahhh… “swap spit.” YMMV, indeed.
          Please be aware that those definitions are *not* universal, as TC pointed out. I know of happy relationships where a different set of expectations are understood.
          Nor does sexual experience connote a rite of passage into maturity and adulthood, any more than smoking used to.

        4. Dating and sex are not synonymous in all cases, but celibacy is definitely synonymous with not dating. It doesn’t just mean ‘no sex’, it means ‘no romantic relationships, period’.

    2. Quinn didn’t shut the door, because Pumpkin didn’t accept it. She just put it on delay. “What, not into girls? Well, I’ll get you later!” :p Instead of, you know, moving on, finding someone else.

  11. To answer Pumpkin’s question; Tarra arrived just in time to hear her say she’d have sex with Quinn. So this should prove interesting.

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